One thing I forgot to mention: if a game goes through reboots or pivots during development, sometimes earlier versions will be written off while other times they'll still be carried on your P&L, and the success of your game could live or die based on which one it is. For Dragon Age: The Veilguard, for example, they didn't count the first version of DA4 that was developed from 2014-2017 (Joplin) but did count the live-service version that was in development from 2018-2021. The game that ultimately shipped was responsible for shouldering the costs of the earlier, multiplayer version.
I respect the fact that u protect ur sources while reporting the truth, this is exactly what the media should focus on to remain valuable to both sides of a story, but I must say I find this level of obfuscation unhelpful this time… I'm a simple person, will never be a CPA. I understand what a dollar is, though. Every dollar spent on "burn rate" is a dollar that can't be spent on eggs, or charity. When it comes down to it, at some base level, every budget is actually comparable, even accounting for all the 'wizardry' in the books (lies, Mr. Schreier, which u mentioned specifically and I'm sure u realize). Some games do cost more than others to produce, and these numbers are going up, and companies are being shuttered because of these numbers, and we should be changing how games are developed because of these exact numbers to preserve this art we love so much.
The point about the 30% is so true. It gets so tricky when you deal with accounting between departments. There will be fights. One department wants to account for the whole. One dept wants you to on paper pay them whatever percent so they can have those "earnings" in their numbers to make them look better.
Respectfully No. Think it’s a very fair question too ask how even if the rumored $300 million budget of Wolverine lead too a middling game vs Blood of Dawnwalker’s and Control Resonant’s budget being two of the best games of the year and together their budgets aren’t even half of Wolverine’s. I can absolutely appreciate and understand the required nuances that stuff like this has but as gamers get charged $70 for middling games like Wolverine and Star Wars Outlaws when even last year 3 of the 6 GOTY nominees cost $50 or less and were vastly better games. Also yes you do have the idiots who use this for console wars which is stupid cause like you have said both companies are dealing with this or the anti woke morons holding up numerous Asian developed games but the core question is still worth asking when numerous devs outside of the American development system are making better games for cheaper. Especially when this leads too people’s livelihood. I know you want what is best for the developers and gamers but I suggest you go and watch Dustin’s video response to this. It is important too ask these exact questions. Also I do think your overall point about inflated budgets is one of the major concerns and issues with game development today, but it is very fair to ask questions like this when numerous developers mainly American developers are releasing more and more middling games.
Hello. Just wanted to leave a suggestion. I think changing the thumbnail text from "Budget" to "Budgetary" will help convey the intention more clearly at a first glance and help it read less like slang. I was very confused at first until I realized you were basically saying "what they're doing with their budget is sorcery". Peace
So if I understood correctly is that any inside accounting or numbers and stuff like that is a mess. But the part I don't understand is that should GAP numbers not be comparable ? Although the rest I get, especially not compare.
There’s also the fact that cost of living greatly varies based on where a game is made. A AAA made in the US (especially West Coast) will cost significantly more to make than say in Eastern Europe with the exact same people, tech, and office space.
"Gears of War E-Day cost $500 million to Xbox and that is a real number. That is real." I think the issue lies in that choice of words in the original video, but this was an interesting follow up on the subject.
Maybe i just missed something, but where did that $500 million figure come from? I get that its complicated but how was this number reached in the first place? What is the context for it? Was it counting work (ie work on the engine or the company as a whole) from before the game even started or just the game itself? Did they just not use account wizardry to hide the true cost and most other companies do, making this one seem more inflated? I feel just as uninformed as i did before the video, my only takeaway is "idk its complicated."
I mean I understand what you're getting at saying it's very difficult to compare because of how they're calculated but there has to be a break point. If I'm comparing a game that has publicly stated it's budget was $30m to a game that publicly stated it cost $500m, I think budget figures are reasonable to bring into the conversation at that point.
Thanks for talking about this as part of the discussion about GoW: E-Day – as well as games like Spider-Man 2 that seemed amazing & successful; worthy of new content for more people to enjoy; but somehow didn't get enough funds to keep the momentum because the money black hole was actually too big to escape.
Extrapolating the direction that EA, Activision, XBOX, PlayStation etc are taking seems like this could be the end of gaming as we know and enjoy it – which could tragically harm & hinder people who love making games, and who love playing them.
The main story behind all this should be how insanely unsustainable making anything and living in these big cities has become rather than "omg expensive game". The cost of living is *broken*.
Regardless of where the budget comes from or what goes into it… if a game costs $500 million to make, no amount of success short of Minecraft will make it profitable.
What I don't understand is that developer hardware has gotten faster. Development software is more powerful and easier to use. Writing and art development is largely the same now as it was back in the 360 days.
Salaries have gone up, but they haven't tripled (unless you're at the very top). So why has game development quintupled since the 360 days.
I enjoyed Gears (still am) but it's largely the same game. Are the actors that expensive?
As a laborer who has lost his position in the film/tv industry (and has spent his unemployed time helping the games industry organize,) I have to say that while the truths you’re speaking are hard, they are truths.
Wages have gone up but consumers have demanded that prices stay the same in the media they’re consuming. We need to rethink our social contracts to each other while the CEOs and executive class refuse to relinquish their positions.
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One thing I forgot to mention: if a game goes through reboots or pivots during development, sometimes earlier versions will be written off while other times they'll still be carried on your P&L, and the success of your game could live or die based on which one it is. For Dragon Age: The Veilguard, for example, they didn't count the first version of DA4 that was developed from 2014-2017 (Joplin) but did count the live-service version that was in development from 2018-2021. The game that ultimately shipped was responsible for shouldering the costs of the earlier, multiplayer version.
I respect the fact that u protect ur sources while reporting the truth, this is exactly what the media should focus on to remain valuable to both sides of a story, but I must say I find this level of obfuscation unhelpful this time… I'm a simple person, will never be a CPA. I understand what a dollar is, though. Every dollar spent on "burn rate" is a dollar that can't be spent on eggs, or charity. When it comes down to it, at some base level, every budget is actually comparable, even accounting for all the 'wizardry' in the books (lies, Mr. Schreier, which u mentioned specifically and I'm sure u realize). Some games do cost more than others to produce, and these numbers are going up, and companies are being shuttered because of these numbers, and we should be changing how games are developed because of these exact numbers to preserve this art we love so much.
This all sounds like something that bungie did pre-sony buyout
You got exposed for misinforming your audience again and now are damage controlling only this time you can't block ppl 🤣
As always, the voice of knowledge and reason among grifters and negativity driven viewership
The point about the 30% is so true. It gets so tricky when you deal with accounting between departments. There will be fights. One department wants to account for the whole. One dept wants you to on paper pay them whatever percent so they can have those "earnings" in their numbers to make them look better.
It's really dumb and confusing.
No way. I thought paying for LLMs was saving money and speeding up development 👉🏾👈🏾
Wasn't the PNL witchcraft how MS kept trying to justify game pass was profitable?
Respectfully No. Think it’s a very fair question too ask how even if the rumored $300 million budget of Wolverine lead too a middling game vs Blood of Dawnwalker’s and Control Resonant’s budget being two of the best games of the year and together their budgets aren’t even half of Wolverine’s. I can absolutely appreciate and understand the required nuances that stuff like this has but as gamers get charged $70 for middling games like Wolverine and Star Wars Outlaws when even last year 3 of the 6 GOTY nominees cost $50 or less and were vastly better games. Also yes you do have the idiots who use this for console wars which is stupid cause like you have said both companies are dealing with this or the anti woke morons holding up numerous Asian developed games but the core question is still worth asking when numerous devs outside of the American development system are making better games for cheaper. Especially when this leads too people’s livelihood. I know you want what is best for the developers and gamers but I suggest you go and watch Dustin’s video response to this. It is important too ask these exact questions. Also I do think your overall point about inflated budgets is one of the major concerns and issues with game development today, but it is very fair to ask questions like this when numerous developers mainly American developers are releasing more and more middling games.
Waste of money
The goat has spoken
Hello. Just wanted to leave a suggestion.
I think changing the thumbnail text from "Budget" to "Budgetary" will help convey the intention more clearly at a first glance and help it read less like slang.
I was very confused at first until I realized you were basically saying "what they're doing with their budget is sorcery". Peace
There is no way Gears E-Day costed 500mln.
So if I understood correctly is that any inside accounting or numbers and stuff like that is a mess. But the part I don't understand is that should GAP numbers not be comparable ? Although the rest I get, especially not compare.
So the studios closing and people getting laid off is not real either and is just accounting magic ?
There’s also the fact that cost of living greatly varies based on where a game is made. A AAA made in the US (especially West Coast) will cost significantly more to make than say in Eastern Europe with the exact same people, tech, and office space.
"Gears of War E-Day cost $500 million to Xbox and that is a real number. That is real." I think the issue lies in that choice of words in the original video, but this was an interesting follow up on the subject.
Maybe i just missed something, but where did that $500 million figure come from? I get that its complicated but how was this number reached in the first place? What is the context for it? Was it counting work (ie work on the engine or the company as a whole) from before the game even started or just the game itself? Did they just not use account wizardry to hide the true cost and most other companies do, making this one seem more inflated? I feel just as uninformed as i did before the video, my only takeaway is "idk its complicated."
Jason’s Big Number Network (JBNN)
I mean I understand what you're getting at saying it's very difficult to compare because of how they're calculated but there has to be a break point. If I'm comparing a game that has publicly stated it's budget was $30m to a game that publicly stated it cost $500m, I think budget figures are reasonable to bring into the conversation at that point.
'Just ignore all the twitter nonsense.' Yep.
Thanks for talking about this as part of the discussion about GoW: E-Day – as well as games like Spider-Man 2 that seemed amazing & successful; worthy of new content for more people to enjoy; but somehow didn't get enough funds to keep the momentum because the money black hole was actually too big to escape.
Extrapolating the direction that EA, Activision, XBOX, PlayStation etc are taking seems like this could be the end of gaming as we know and enjoy it – which could tragically harm & hinder people who love making games, and who love playing them.
Roughly 4:40 — I need additional context, cause this sounds like the low end of dev work is making over $10k a month before benefits.
TBH it sounds like you are arguing that the studios are doing even worse then what they are publicly stating with all the financial manipulation.
What about Nagoshi studios that recently shut down? What happened with that game?
What a $500 million game actually means:
development costs: $1 million
Marketing budget (ad read by Jason Schreier): $499 million
The main story behind all this should be how insanely unsustainable making anything and living in these big cities has become rather than "omg expensive game". The cost of living is *broken*.
What's the next level? Taking clips from Twitter and misinterpreting it on instagram?
Can we have the actual budget for Wolverine?
1:51 I can't believe leveraged buyouts are allowed like this. By that logic anybody can buy anything. Yes I'm sure there's some nuance.
Regardless of where the budget comes from or what goes into it… if a game costs $500 million to make, no amount of success short of Minecraft will make it profitable.
What I don't understand is that developer hardware has gotten faster. Development software is more powerful and easier to use. Writing and art development is largely the same now as it was back in the 360 days.
Salaries have gone up, but they haven't tripled (unless you're at the very top). So why has game development quintupled since the 360 days.
I enjoyed Gears (still am) but it's largely the same game. Are the actors that expensive?
I didn't know that! Thank you!
common one-take schreier W
Twitter is a cancer
@jason-schreier – I definitely missed some of the context in your last video and I appreciate you sharing here.
complexity and nuance in this internet age? heresy!
As a laborer who has lost his position in the film/tv industry (and has spent his unemployed time helping the games industry organize,) I have to say that while the truths you’re speaking are hard, they are truths.
Wages have gone up but consumers have demanded that prices stay the same in the media they’re consuming. We need to rethink our social contracts to each other while the CEOs and executive class refuse to relinquish their positions.
Mmm. Nuance slop!
I really, really like your videos sir! The thumbnails make it even better
No saving discourse, people think game budgets = destruction and explosions 😭
Never mind games, I'm curious about when you will play that guitar!
Those times where people mentioned the source of information and they gave some context. I think it was called journalism.
Jon Blow has been pretty open about the cost of developing Order of the Sinking Star, which was made by a VERY smaller team than E-Day
The American healthcare industry knows. Go woke and go broke. Real profit comes from real exploitation.
/s
Game studios have been desperate to be compared to movie studios forever, you can't blame onlookers for treating budgets like movie budgets
Do anyone know which book it is on One Take Schreier's shelf behind him, between "Play Nice" and "Blood, Pixels and Sweat"
Jason can you please make a video about Amazon gaming and their projects from First Light until the upcoming Tomb Raider games?
1 👏 take, gang
1TS